Message Board Archive: Thread Number 59

Hi folks,

Since taking up acoustic blues, some things have remained the same with
my right hand technique, but some things have changed.

I gave up the pick a long time ago, even before starting my classical
studies. I adopted a finger/string "assignment" that I suspect many
other fingerstyle guitarists use - my thumb takes care of the EAD
strings (standard tuning), my index handles the G, my middle the B, and
my ring finger the high E. Of course, there are situations where this
will vary, but for the most part, my fingers have become good friends
with the strings they have been assigned to, if you can dig.

What has changed, though, at least when playing blues, is where I seem
to be comfortable positioning my hand. Playing classical, I assume the
standard position, guitar on left knee, thumb of left hand on back of
neck. However, my right hand is completely off of the guitar. My arm (a
few inches away from my elbow) rests at the very bottom of the guitar
and it is here that the fulcrum, and hence the control, is. Since
playing acoustic blues, I now plant the base of my hand on the bridge.
I'm not sure whether this is because I sometimes play standing, with
strap, and I need better control because of my body movement, or whether
it is just the style of music, or what, but I find that I'm compelled to
plant my hand instead of my arm. I feel I have more control, but at the
same time, the sound is somewhat more "tinnier" than when my hand is
completely raised off of the guitar.

Ari, and anyone else ... where do you position your right hand. Directly
over the strings, or with the base of your hand planted on the guitar?

Should I go back to my "old way", but just practice keeping control?

I ask because it does seem like I'm making a sacrifice. I'm giving up a
clearer tone for control. Any advice?

Thanks, Kevin

Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:39:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Owner-HyperNews@ComCAT.COM (tom w)
Subject: Untitled
Message Number: 59.1

I'm sure Ari will provide an erudite post on right hand technique, and
his right hand is truly amazing, but I'd like to share my 2-cents. I
think the thumb and three finger technique is the exception, especially
when observing the older blues players. Many of them, not all, used
thumb and index only, however thumb and two fingers were also frequent.
Most players I observe use thumb and two fingers, which is what I use.
How the right hand is anchored is another issue, and, again, I think
there are many ways and reasons players anchor their right hands. Some
float their hand, some rest the heel on the bridge, I think Ari does
this a lot, some anchor the hand w/ a pinky or pinky and ring finger,
which is what I do most of the time. I think most players with any level
of sophistication tend to vary the anchor/position based on the "sound"
he is going for. Resting your heel on the bridge/saddle will give that
muted "thump" while lifting the heel off the bridge/saddle will provide
various angles of attack for the fingers/picks/nails which will in turn
offer a variety of sound colorings. Many well-played guitars tend to
have pick marks below the sound hole, above the pick guard from picks
and nails striking the wood at the edge of the sound hole. Mine has an
oily spot right where I rest my pinky.

Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 13:53:41 -0500 (EST)
From: ari@secondmind.com (Ari Eisinger)
Subject: Feedback: Re: Right Hand Technique
Message Number: 59.2

Kevin wrote:

>Since taking up acoustic blues, some things have remained the
>same with my right hand technique, but some things have
>changed. 

>I gave up the pick a long time ago, even before starting my
>classical studies. I adopted a finger/string "assignment"
>that I suspect many other fingerstyle guitarists use - my
>thumb takes care of the EAD strings (standard tuning), my
>index handles the G, my middle the B, and my ring finger the
>high E. Of course, there are situations where this will vary,
>but for the most part, my fingers have become good friends
>with the strings they have been assigned to, if you can dig.

This is not the way I choose which strings to play with which finger of
my right hand. I find it is not helpful to more or less ASSIGN a finger
to a string or a string to a finger. Here's how I do things and why. I
use three fingers including my thumb. The reason is that two fingers
(index and thumb) just doesn't cut it for me since I'm not Gary Davis.
When I use index and thumb, my index has to jump around from string to
string, and the resulting sound loses smoothness and ease. Using four
fingers I find makes my attack weak. Somehow that ring finger is not as
strong as the other two and also seems to interfere with the proper
operation of the others. Which fingers play which strings? It depends
what I'm doing. Any finger can play any string. Here are some of the
rules I generally follow. In general (when I'm not using the Gary Davis
alternating index and thumb ala flatpicking technique), I assign the top
string to my middle finger. This means whenever I play the top string I
use my middle finger. My thumb gets the bass, even if it's not on the
bottom three strings. For instance, it may be playing harmony with the
treble strings like this

*    G           C
* ||----1--0-------|---
* ||----------3--1-|---
* ||-0--2--0-------|---
* ||----------3----|-2-
* ||---------------|---
* ||---------------|---
*

as in Blind Lemon Jefferson's Black Horse Blues. Of the treble notes
that are not on the top string, how do I decide which right hand finger
to use for which note? Rather than using assignment (each string owns a
particular finger), I use what I call "the team". If I'm playing eighth
notes, it's important to be able to switch from one string to another
easily, so I'll just use my index finger for the lower of the two
strings and my middle for the higher, regardless of which strings they
are. For example, I'd play this

*    C
* ||----0-----0-----0-----0-|
* ||-1-----1-----1-----1----|
* ||------------------------|
* ||-------2-----------2----|
* ||-3----------------------|
* ||-------------3----------|
*

using my index finger for all the 1's and my middle finger for all the
0's, and for this

*    C
* ||------------------------|
* ||----1-----1-----1-----1-|
* ||-0-----0-----0-----0----|
* ||-------2-----------2----|
* ||-3----------------------|
* ||-------------3----------|
*

I'd use my middle finger for the 0's and my index for the 1's. Thus I
have a movable team of two fingers that can be placed anywhere to give
me ease in playing adjacent strings in quick succession. (Adjacent notes
on the same string I always play with the same finger.)

>What has changed, though, at least when playing blues, is
>where I seem to be comfortable positioning my hand. Playing
>classical, I assume the standard position, guitar on left
>knee, thumb of left hand on back of neck. However, my right
>hand is completely off of the guitar. My arm (a few inches
>away from my elbow) rests at the very bottom of the guitar
>and it is here that the fulcrum, and hence the control, is.
>Since playing acoustic blues, I now plant the base of my hand
>on the bridge. I'm not sure whether this is because I
>sometimes play standing, with strap, and I need better
>control because of my body movement, or whether it is just
>the style of music, or what, but I find that I'm compelled to
>plant my hand instead of my arm. I feel I have more control,
>but at the same time, the sound is somewhat more "tinnier"
>than when my hand is completely raised off of the guitar.

>Ari, and anyone else ... where do you position your right
>hand. Directly over the strings, or with the base of your
>hand planted on the guitar? 

>Should I go back to my "old way", but just practice keeping
>control? 

>I ask because it does seem like I'm making a sacrifice. I'm
>giving up a clearer tone for control. Any advice? 

> Thanks, Kevin

Personal preferences vary as do hands, but here's mine for what it's
worth. I like to position my right hand roughly the way Blind Blake
seems to be holding his in his one surviving picture: hand rounded,
thumb pointing toward the nut, no fingers touching the guitar. When I
want more support, I put my palm on about the 6th string's peg, and when
I don't, I can get a different sound and different attack by letting my
hand float. My arm always touches the guitar's lower bout at the point
it needs to in order that my hand can be in this position. Usually this
point is on my forearm a few inches away from my elbow. There are
drawbacks to any position. The drawbacks to this one are accidentally
muting the bass string and dampening the tone a little when my hand is
touching the guitar, and lack of support when it's not.

As for the left hand, I hold the guitar like a baseball bat. I don't
like to put my thumb on the back of the neck because it's too difficult
to play that way, and also because I often need my thumb to fret a bass
string or two. Thus I oppose my fingers with my palm, not my thumb. (A
few chords, like the "long A" chord, do require the thumb to be behind
the neck, but most chords in these styles don't.) I find using my left
leg extremely awkward for this style and only use my right leg.

Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:17:05 -0500 (EST)
From: kmccann@idrc.ca (Kevin McCann)
Subject: Re: Right hand technique
Message Number: 59.3

Ari wrote:

"This is not the way I choose which strings to play with which finger of
my right hand. I find it is not helpful to more or less ASSIGN a finger
to a string or a string to a finger."

Yes, I think I may have not chosen the best words to describe my
approach. It is never a given that a particular string will be plucked
by a particular finger. However, there is sometimes a general idea of
what finger might come into play. For example, the bass notes on the 6
and 5 strings will most often be played by the thumb. And because I use
four fingers, they just seem to "assign themselves" ... seems natural.
Or maybe it just seems natural to me *now*, after having the
reenforcement by the classical studies (no teacher would allow a player
to leave out the ring finger ... it is necessary for many of the
standard techniques).

"Using four fingers I find makes my attack weak. Somehow that ring
finger is not as strong as the other two and also seems to interfere
with the proper operation of the others."

I suppose it all depends on what one is used to. I don't think that I
could *not* play with the ring finger. It would feel incredibly
unnatural to leave it out. It would be crying "Let me in! Let me in!"
...

I don't force myself to always play the high E with the ring, or the B
with the middle, etc., it just seems that those fingers most often end
up covering them because it is ingrained - they seem to *want* to go
there. If, because of the nature a particular sequence of notes, it
isn't practical to do so, they seem to know when to do whatever *is*
practical.

I suppose one biq question might be whether using four fingers would
*prevent* me from playing good blues guitar. I know I am fairly new to
this genre (9 months), but it doesn't seem to be a detriment so far.
Time will tell, I guess.

"*    C
 * ||------------------------|
 * ||----1-----1-----1-----1-|
 * ||-0-----0-----0-----0----|
 * ||-------2-----------2----|
 * ||-3----------------------|
 * ||-------------3----------|
 *

 I'd use my middle finger for the 0's and my index for the 1's."

Wow! I do find that odd ... I don't think I'd be able to do that. My
index would eventual sneak back to the 0's and the middle, the 1's, no
matter how hard I might try. Interesting.

Your description of your right hand placement sounds like much of what
I've been doing ... I just never knew whether I should be using one way
or the other (palm on guitar, or not). Perhaps I should continue
practicing to be able to do both interchangeably and know *when* to use
one or the other.

As for left hand placement and knee ... again, byproducts of playing
other forms of music. I don't think I necessarily want to change these,
unless it gets in the way of being able to play other stuff. So far, it
doesn't seem to. I have noticed that some of the blues tunes I have the
music for are accompanied with "help notes" which suggest that some bass
notes get played by the left thumb. I tend to get them with an available
finger instead, and in one way or another, seem to be able to do so
without losing the flow.

In any case, I hope that my ingrained techniques don't interfere with my
desire to be able to play acoustic blues well, as I really enjoy this
stuff ... in the meantime, I'll try to practice using both right hand
positions interchangeably.

Thanks, Ari!

- Kevin

Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:18:47 -0500 (EST)
From: ari@secondmind.com (Ari Eisinger)
Subject: Feedback: Re: Right hand technique
Message Number: 59.4

Kevin wrote:

[SNIP]

> "*    C
>  * ||------------------------|
>  * ||----1-----1-----1-----1-|
>  * ||-0-----0-----0-----0----|
>  * ||-------2-----------2----|
>  * ||-3----------------------|
>  * ||-------------3----------|
>
>  I'd use my middle finger for the 0's and my index for the >1's."
>
> Wow! I do find that odd ... I don't think I'd be able to do >that. My index would eventual sneak
> back to the 0's and the middle, the 1's, no matter how hard >I might try. Interesting. 

Sorry; that was a mistake. It should have read "I'd use my index finger
for the 0's and my middle for the 1's." That makes much more sense. I've
posted a corrected version so people don't think I'm crazy.

[SNIP]

> As for left hand placement and knee ... again, byproducts of >playing other forms of music. I don't
> think I necessarily want to change these, unless it gets in >the way of being able to play other stuff.
> So far, it doesn't seem to. I have noticed that some of the >blues tunes I have the music for are
> accompanied with "help notes" which suggest that some bass >notes get played by the left thumb. I
> tend to get them with an available finger instead, and in >one way or another, seem to be able to do
> so without losing the flow. 

This is the one thing of the many I mentioned that I think you just
_gotta_ be able to do: use the left hand thumb for at least one bass
note. Available fingers are in short supply!

Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:27:55 -0500 (EST)
From: ari@secondmind.com (Ari Eisinger)
Subject: Feedback: Re: right hand technique: correction of previous post
Message Number: 59.5

I reversed the right hand fingering, as Kevin pointed out, in one of my
examples, so here's a repost with the correction.

------------------------------

Kevin wrote:

>Since taking up acoustic blues, some things have remained the
>same with my right hand technique, but some things have
>changed. 

>I gave up the pick a long time ago, even before starting my
>classical studies. I adopted a finger/string "assignment"
>that I suspect many other fingerstyle guitarists use - my
>thumb takes care of the EAD strings (standard tuning), my
>index handles the G, my middle the B, and my ring finger the
>high E. Of course, there are situations where this will vary,
>but for the most part, my fingers have become good friends
>with the strings they have been assigned to, if you can dig.

This is not the way I choose which strings to play with which finger of
my right hand. I find it is not helpful to more or less ASSIGN a finger
to a string or a string to a finger. Here's how I do things and why. I
use three fingers including my thumb. The reason is that two fingers
(index and thumb) just doesn't cut it for me since I'm not Gary Davis.
When I use index and thumb, my index has to jump around from string to
string, and the resulting sound loses smoothness and ease. Using four
fingers I find makes my attack weak. Somehow that ring finger is not as
strong as the other two and also seems to interfere with the proper
operation of the others. Which fingers play which strings? It depends
what I'm doing. Any finger can play any string. Here are some of the
rules I generally follow. In general (when I'm not using the Gary Davis
alternating index and thumb ala flatpicking technique), I assign the top
string to my middle finger. This means whenever I play the top string I
use my middle finger. My thumb gets the bass, even if it's not on the
bottom three strings. For instance, it may be playing harmony with the
treble strings like this

*    G           C
* ||----1--0-------|---
* ||----------3--1-|---
* ||-0--2--0-------|---
* ||----------3----|-2-
* ||---------------|---
* ||---------------|---
*

as in Blind Lemon Jefferson's Black Horse Blues. Of the treble notes
that are not on the top string, how do I decide which right hand finger
to use for which note? Rather than using assignment (each string owns a
particular finger), I use what I call "the team". If I'm playing eighth
notes, it's important to be able to switch from one string to another
easily, so I'll just use my index finger for the lower of the two
strings and my middle for the higher, regardless of which strings they
are. For example, I'd play this

*    C
* ||----0-----0-----0-----0-|
* ||-1-----1-----1-----1----|
* ||------------------------|
* ||-------2-----------2----|
* ||-3----------------------|
* ||-------------3----------|
*

using my index finger for all the 1's and my middle finger for all the
0's, and for this

*    C
* ||------------------------|
* ||----1-----1-----1-----1-|
* ||-0-----0-----0-----0----|
* ||-------2-----------2----|
* ||-3----------------------|
* ||-------------3----------|
*

I'd use my index finger for the 0's and my middle for the 1's. Thus I
have a movable team of two fingers that can be placed anywhere to give
me ease in playing adjacent strings in quick succession. (Adjacent notes
on the same string I always play with the same finger.)

>What has changed, though, at least when playing blues, is
>where I seem to be comfortable positioning my hand. Playing
>classical, I assume the standard position, guitar on left
>knee, thumb of left hand on back of neck. However, my right
>hand is completely off of the guitar. My arm (a few inches
>away from my elbow) rests at the very bottom of the guitar
>and it is here that the fulcrum, and hence the control, is.
>Since playing acoustic blues, I now plant the base of my hand
>on the bridge. I'm not sure whether this is because I
>sometimes play standing, with strap, and I need better
>control because of my body movement, or whether it is just
>the style of music, or what, but I find that I'm compelled to
>plant my hand instead of my arm. I feel I have more control,
>but at the same time, the sound is somewhat more "tinnier"
>than when my hand is completely raised off of the guitar.

>Ari, and anyone else ... where do you position your right
>hand. Directly over the strings, or with the base of your
>hand planted on the guitar? 

>Should I go back to my "old way", but just practice keeping
>control? 

>I ask because it does seem like I'm making a sacrifice. I'm
>giving up a clearer tone for control. Any advice? 

> Thanks, Kevin

Personal preferences vary as do hands, but here's mine for what it's
worth. I like to position my right hand roughly the way Blind Blake
seems to be holding his in his one surviving picture: hand rounded,
thumb pointing toward the nut, no fingers touching the guitar. When I
want more support, I put my palm on about the 6th string's peg, and when
I don't, I can get a different sound and different attack by letting my
hand float. My arm always touches the guitar's lower bout at the point
it needs to in order that my hand can be in this position. Usually this
point is on my forearm a few inches away from my elbow. There are
drawbacks to any position. The drawbacks to this one are accidentally
muting the bass string and dampening the tone a little when my hand is
touching the guitar, and lack of support when it's not.

As for the left hand, I hold the guitar like a baseball bat. I don't
like to put my thumb on the back of the neck because it's too difficult
to play that way, and also because I often need my thumb to fret a bass
string or two. Thus I oppose my fingers with my palm, not my thumb. (A
few chords, like the "long A" chord, do require the thumb to be behind
the neck, but most chords in these styles don't.) I find using my left
leg extremely awkward for this style and only use my right leg.

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:42:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: revbr@aol.com (Charlie Archer)
Subject: Feedback: right hand technigue
Message Number: 59.6

Whaddaya want, free lessons? For Blind Blake your picking fingers must
be straight.