Message Board Archive: Thread Number 58

Hi Ari,

I would dearly love to get my hands on some Blind Blake transcriptions.
There is one song in particular that I would like to find the music for
- "Too Tight Blues #2". Any BB will do just fine, though ...

Any ideas?

Regards, Kevin

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:01:18 -0500 (EST)
From: ari@secondmind.com (Ari Eisinger)
Subject: Feedback: Re: Blind Blake sheet music?
Message Number: 58.1

Hoo boy, I may get myself in trouble here: this raises a number of
controversial issues, I suspect.
The main question is: Is the combination of an exact transcription of a
piece and the original recording sufficient for learning said piece? In
my experience, it is sufficient for some people, but insufficient for
most. Most serious players will absorb a good deal of what's on the
paper, and miss a good deal as well. I say this because of what I've
seen over the years as a guitar teacher. This is not meant to be an
insult to anyone; it is one of the main justifications for the existence
of guitar teachers who still give lessons rather than just issuing tab
books.
Having said this, I should mention that there's another problem: the
accuracy of most of the existing transcriptions of the early blues tunes
leaves alot to be desired. This is so for many reasons, I think, and not
all of them are bad ones. However, finding an _accurate_ transcription
of any given piece is alot harder than simply finding _a_ transcription
of it.
As if I've not been too outspoken already, I feel another bout coming
on. When it comes to Blind Blake's music, it would be hard to find
someone who knows it better than I do. He's my special hero, and I know
his playing pretty well. I've transcribed a few of his tunes, and I play
Too Tight No. 2 but haven't transcribed it yet. The transcriptions I've
done so far could use a little more work, and will probably become part
of a book or book/recording combination sometime in the next few years.
Woody Mann has transcribed some Blake tunes, but I have not seen the
transcriptions so cannot comment on their accuracy. However, Woody Mann
is a marvelous and learned musician and his transcriptions are worth
checking out.
If you're interested in taking lessons with me in person or over the
phone (see my web page before laughing _too_ hard), or in discussing the
possibility of my transcribing this great piece for you, contact me via
email or phone.

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:09:41 -0500 (EST)
From: kmccann@idrc.ca (Kevin McCann)
Subject: Re: Blind Blake sheet music?
Message Number: 58.1.1

(points well taken, Ari)

Ari sez:

"The main question is: Is the combination of an exact transcription of a
piece and the original recording sufficient for learning said piece? In
my experience, it is sufficient for some people, but insufficient for
most. Most serious players will absorb a good deal of what's on the
paper, and miss a good deal as well."

I hear you. Having a recording does, indeed, help. I studied classical
guitar for many years and am a rather good standard notation reader (and
make use of tab for fretboard placement suggestions), but when all is
said and done, something will inevitably get lost in the translation.
Especially with forms of music that are more emotive than 'schooled'
(for want of a better word). With a straightforward, easy classical
piece, it is not too hard to guess where certain phrasing ought to
happen, but I find it more difficult to be accurate with, say, an old
acoustic blues piece.

This was evident to me when I picked up "Beginning Acoustic Blues
Guitar" by Mark Galbo (and Arnie Berle?). It came with a CD, but I
decided to try some of the pieces at the back of the book before
listening, just as an experiment. I tried "Black Cat Swing" (a *gas* to
play) and was fairly close with that, but was way off with "Big Road
Blues". Listening to the CD made me say "so *that's* how you play it
...". Of course, there may also be a big difference between Mark's
renditions and the original recordings, so I'd definitely like to get my
hands on the latter if authenticity is a goal.

Which begs the question. Does one necessarily want to duplicate, to the
very last resonating pluck, the original recordings of these wonderful
tunes? I suspect that the composers/players themselves may have played
their songs varyingly. Personally, I'd want to capture the *essence*,
but might not be too concerned with getting every single note bang on
every time.

"I say this because of what I've seen over the years as a guitar
teacher. This is not meant to be an insult to anyone; it is one of the
main justifications for the existence of guitar teachers who still give
lessons rather than just issuing tab books."

I had two guitar teachers. One was a very good player, and an
outstanding teacher. The other was a *phenomenal* player. One of the
best classical players I've ever heard. But he stank as a teacher. He
expected to be paid big bucks to nod his head for half an hour and at
the end of the session, say "Go home and practice. See you next week."
Yet, I agree ... a *good* teacher who really cares is so important for a
player's development.

The other thing that I think really helps is recording oneself. I tend
to hear nuances (good and bad) that I just don't pick up on while
playing.

"Having said this, I should mention that there's another problem: the
accuracy of most of the existing transcriptions of the early blues tunes
leaves alot to be desired. This is so for many reasons, I think, and not
all of them are bad ones. However, finding an _accurate_ transcription
of any given piece is alot harder than simply finding _a_ transcription
of it.

Indeed. I never bother trying a piece if it is in tab only. I find that
I need to have standard notation as well. Otherwise, I'm not confident
in the transcription. Even then, it isn't guaranteed to be accurate. If
you can manage to find pieces by excellent transcribers (Jesse Gress
comes to mind), you're in luck. Of course, having a recording really
helps. You can make emendations if need be, or dismiss the transcription
altogether.

"As if I've not been too outspoken already, I feel another bout coming
on. When it comes to Blind Blake's music, it would be hard to find
someone who knows it better than I do. He's my special hero, and I know
his playing pretty well. I've transcribed a few of his tunes, and I play
Too Tight No. 2 but haven't transcribed it yet. The transcriptions I've
done so far could use a little more work, and will probably become part
of a book or book/recording combination sometime in the next few years.

I would look forward to that. Very much. Send me a note if (not *if*,
but *when*!!!) you complete the project.

"Woody Mann has transcribed some Blake tunes, but I have not seen the
transcriptions so cannot comment on their accuracy. However, Woody Mann
is a marvelous and learned musician and his transcriptions are worth
checking out."

I *just* picked up "Anthology of Acoustic Blues Guitar" (or something
like that) by Woody Mann. It has 34 songs, including two by Blake. I
haven't had the chance to play anything from the book yet. This weekend,
for sure! It is too bad that there was no accompanying CD, but Woody did
provide a discography at the back of the book with titles and record
labels so that the reader/player can seek out and buy them and thus,
hear the Real McCoy.

"If you're interested in taking lessons with me in person or over the phone (see my web page before laughing _too_ hard), or in discussing the possibility of my transcribing this great
 piece for you, contact me via email or phone."

I live in Ottawa, Canada, so I'm a tad too far for personal lessons.
Phone lessons ... that's new to me, but I just might take you up on that
... will let you know.

Well, thank you, Ari, for taking the time to respond so well to my
question. Much appreciated.

By the way ... I mentioned that I have been primarily a classical
player. I had a lot of fun with that and it really made me a better
player in very sense. However, it was just nine months ago that I
"discovered" acoustic blues guitar and I have to tell you that I am
having more fun with music than I have had in a long, long time. It has
been a true joy.

Of course, getting used to steel strings and a thinner neck has been
"interesting" ... ;-)

Regards,
Kevin

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 13:53:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Owner-HyperNews@ComCAT.COM (Tom W.)
Subject: Warning: Lessons/transcriptions
Message Number: 58.1.1.1

Having experienced learning country blues over the past 20 yrs. via ear,
TAB, and lessons (w/ Ari)I find the lessons fastest, least painful and
most rewarding. When I learn by ear, I'll fret --no pun-- over one
simple phrase for hours, and still not get is right, or learn a piece
only to realize later that the original was done in an entirely
different tuning, let alone key. (Ari may remember my Broke Down Engine
in open D). However, some people learn well this way and are very
successful. When learning from TAB w/o a live teacher, I find that I
create some awkward fingerings, both left and right hand, plus, most TAB
is a little skimpy on the full development of the piece, or, some I've
attempted, is so inclusive as to be almost impossible to decipher and
play. I've taken lessons from Ari for about two years now,(this is not a
plug, just personal experience) and this does three things for me:
first, my portfolio of songs rises much more quickly than if left to my
own devices; second, my technique advances with a pair of skilled eyes
observing my finger moves; third, I get to see a talent like Ari up
close and personal, and yes, it is a bold statement to say that you're
the man when it comes to Blake's style, but Ari's playing speaks for
itself. Since Ari's past post made a bold statement, I'd like to offer
this thought: In my opinion, in 25 yrs of listening to country blues, I
feel that several of the contemporary player/interpreters are BETTER
players than the originals from the 20's and 30's. Granted, these early
players evolved a style, but some of the guitar greats of today have
taken that basic style and refined it. Comments?

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 22:21:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: revbr@aol.com (Charlie Archer)
Subject: Disagree: merits of modern players
Message Number: 58.1.1.1.1

No one has refined the old style without losing the basic power. There
is no modern day player alive whose playing invites repeated listening
to this ear. The prewar magic is not that easily domesticated.

Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 17:14:30 -0500 (EST)
From: BlindBlake@AOL.COM (Forgetful Jones)
Subject: Disagree: Most modern guys bore me
Message Number: 58.1.1.1.1.1

I've tried buying discs from Guy Davis, Keb Mo and they, like most of
the new accoustic blues guys I know just don't do much for me compared
to Gary Davis, Blind Willie McTell, Robert Johnson..............

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:25:44 -0500 (EST)
From: mannbr@aol.com (Bradley R. Mann)
Subject: Feedback: Re: Merits of modern day players
Message Number: 58.1.1.1.1.2

Charlie,

I would have to agree with you on this subject. Most of the acoustic
blues players that are getting a lot of press just don't move me. But,
there are some that don't get any press that I believe are superb:

John Cephas (gets press), John Jackson, Catfish Keith, Lightnin' Mike
Wells, Kenny Sultan.

Just to name a few....

V/r Brad

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 22:09:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: revbr@aol.com (Charlie Archer)
Subject: Feedback: Re: Blind Blake sheet music
Message Number: 58.1.1.2

Tell me what you want. I guarantee that my Blind Blake tab is the most
accurate in the world. The cost, however, is considerable. With all due
respect to Ari and thanks for this forum I have heard and enjoyed his
Southern Rag and it is far less faithful to Blake's version than my own.
I am the true note-by-note transcriber, and there is no other way!!!!
Anyone who learns prewar blues any other way is dealing with
inferiority!!! This is the music of the planet Earth to which white
people are strangers! We cannot, by definition, play authentic prewar
blues without extensive rep-configuration. I know this because I have
come to Earth to learn the secret of the gapped triplet and all its
ramifications. This is my first posting. I am one of the oldest, and
certainly the most opinionated and dogmatic of all these correspondents.
I have all the answers! ...or at least most of them!!

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 21:19:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: zeppa@earthlink.net (Frank Basile)
Subject: Question: Re: Blind Blake sheet music
Message Number: 58.1.1.2.1

Luckily, we have Charlie, who says:
>I have all the answers!
Say, where did my kid put my capo?
f

Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 01:27:49 -0500 (EST)
From: alexgutz@flash.net (alex)
Subject: Question: Blind Blake Transcript
Message Number: 58.2

Greetings Ari, I am a classical guitarist who in the past five years
have gotten into playing fingerstyle country blues. I've learned pieces
by Rev. Gary Davis, Lightning Hopkins, Libba Cotten,....etc. I am still
looking for a transcript in tab or standard notation of Blind Blake's
SWEET PAPA LOWDOWN. Any help or leads? Your assistance will be gladly
appreciated!!!!! Sincerely, Alex

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:57:14 -0500 (EST)
From: zts1@psu.edu (Zac Shaw)
Subject: Idea: Blind Blake tab
Message Number: 58.3

There IS Blind Blake TAB floating around in the internet universe. I
think the address is Maxdaddy something, I came across it randomly. The
tab is rough at best but it may be a start. Good Luck